Benay Lappe: Judaism Unbound Episode 200 - Educating Ourselves


Benay Lappe, founder of SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva, [1] joins Dan Libenson and Lex Rofeberg as a co-host for this conversation, as the three of them look forward toward the future of Jewish education [2] and reflect back on 200 episodes of the Judaism Unbound podcast.

(0:01 - 18:55): To begin the episode, Dan and Lex speak to the ways in which shifts to how education about Judaism happens can in many ways reflect broader, fundamental shifts to Judaism itself. Lappe adds her own thoughts on that phenomenon, emphasizing in particular the idea of svara — a kind of inner voice within each person. [3] She asks why such an empowering idea — key to the text of the Talmud — tends not to make its way as a subject into forms of Jewish children’s education. She, Dan, and Lex together compare and contrast the realms of adult education and children’s education in Jewish settings. Lappe continues by talking about “the 99%” and “the 1%” of Jews, with the latter representing a small, elite minority who has been given access to core teachings in the past, and the former representing a group that deserves such access now and in the future. She comments on Dan’s idea of being a “public student,” asserting that it is important for any teacher to themselves be learning alongside students — going so far as to say that nobody with a PhD in Talmud will ever be a teacher of Talmud in her yeshiva!

(18:56 - 32:59): Dan brings up the inter-related topics of authority and expertise, two ongoing threads throughout the Judaism Unbound podcast in its first 200 episodes. He also looks at the differences between teaching the “whats” of Judaism versus teaching the “hows,” and perhaps most importantly, the “whys” of Judaism. [4] Lappe agrees, and adds that in addition to the collective “whys” of Judaism writ large, individual Jews should be given permission to find their own personal “whys” as well, in terms of why they care about Judaism and Jewishness. Flashing back to Irwin Kula, Lex looks at the difference between a “why” constructed around bettering the world versus a “why” constructed around creating “better” or “more committed” Jews. [5] Lappe adds to that, by quoting another piece of Kula’s wisdom, namely that “You have to have a take!”

(33:00 - 56:58): Pivoting slightly, Lex brings up the idea of “classics” — texts like the Torah and Talmud that Jewish educators tend to center as “must-haves” in Jewish education, whereas other components of Jewish tradition — he cites cultural pieces in particular — are seen as less central. He and Dan discuss (and to some extent, debate) whether or not Jewish pop culture, and the intersection of Judaism and sports, should be on the same plane as texts like the Torah and Talmud, in Jewish educational contexts. Lappe takes a piece that Lex named, the idea that “people need to see Judaism as their own story,” and applies it to reducing the proverbial distance, or psychological gap, between the rabbis of the Talmud and Jews today. She speaks to how that means, ultimately, that we have to drastically increase the number of people who feel they are “players on the field” of contemporary Judaism, and not simply bystanders. To close the episode, Lex reflects on what it means to reach 200 episodes of Judaism Unbound. He connects the number 200 to its equivalent in Jewish numerology, the Hebrew-letter “Resh.” Specifically, he ties it to a rabbi of the Talmud named “Resh Lakish,” whose life and story embody a number of themes inherent to this episode, and to the Judaism Unbound podcast more broadly. [6]

[1] For Benay Lappe’s previous appearances on Judaism Unbound see any of the following episodes — Episode 3: Exodus - Benay Lappe, Episode 36: What Jewish Looks Like Today - Benay Lappe, or Episode 56: A Traditionally, Radical Yeshiva - Benay Lappe.

[3] Learn more about SVARA, its Queer Talmud Camps, its year-round initiatives, and more at www.svara.org.

[4] Dan alludes to Simon Sinek’s TED Talk centered on the imperative to “start with why.” Watch the full talk by clicking here.

[5] Listen to the two parts of Irwin Kula’s appearance on Judaism Unbound here — Ep53: Death and Rebirth - Irwin Kula Part I and Ep54: Judaism's Job (Irwin Kula Part II).

[6] Learn more about Resh Lakish (Shimon ben Lakish), the gladiator-turned-rabbi mentioned by Lex toward the end of the episode, by checking out this 2012 article from Jewniverse.

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Abby Eisenberg: Judaism Unbound Episode 199 - Learning Judaism